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Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:02 am
by Knacki
Taron wrote:Perfect timing for the Lunar New Year! :lol: :ob (...was that Verve? Certainly feels different. )

Hahaha - well Chinese year of the golden pig started yesterday - so what? :D

(...was that Verve? Certainly feels different. )
Sent it to my friends at new year but was not posting it here as it was not done in verve.
Verve just gave me the joy in painting back. Without verve no pics from my side.

But I enjoy the mobile freedom in painting that much, that it is hard for a step back to verve. I am painting everywhere now, and PC time is working time.
For sure, the original resolution with 3500x3500 would not have been possible in verve as well, not without a monster computer. (I have an ipad pro 10,5" now. 650 gramms including cover and pencil -bought used for 500€ with keyboard etc. A Cintiq, a computer, a pen and 256GB......for that prize, you can buy a new low budget Cintiq. Even new, for around 1000€ - guess what you get for that amount of money in PC world, if drawing is your focus)
Also, I really enjoy to use all the basic functions, missing in verve.
Hell, taron - you know that there is almost no one loving verve that much than I do. But literally no real development since years?
Beside waiting, I became a bit tired workflow compromises.
Other painting software is developped quickly with fluid feeling and structured brush strokes, 64 Bit support and a decent UI and all functions needed. Even damed slow old Phtotshop became much better now.

Your ideas in developping a painting software are so revolutionary, and cool. They really deseve to be brought to a professional level. Soon.
As an aggresive developped professional tool, or freeware.
You need help, doesn't matter which way you want to go.

Verve, decently developped, would be a sensation in the App store!
All this liquid stuff is so much Apple CI ;)
People would go crazy.
More than that, there is no real windows touch painting software, for all the upcoming 2 in 1 computer. They have partly quite decent hardware, a good pen, a nice display and all the shitty apps made for mouse and pencil use.
Verve on a Microsoft book 2 15" with GTX1060 6GB Ram with ~3000x2000 px display, would be a charme, if touch focused developped. There is a book 3 coming in the end of 2019 maybe beginning 2020 ;)

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:21 pm
by Taron
All true and all exciting! Eventually I will have to pull myself together and figure out the openGL ES stuff as well as a decent cross platform environment. Lots left to learn, but the understanding is there and that is the most important thing in the end. Thanks for the pushing! ;)

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:28 am
by Tartan
Hey Knacki,

I have also been looking for a more portable solution. From what I see as far as Windows go Surface (as you suggested) and Wacom MobileStudio Pro are the 2 best options. I am so tempted to buy the Wacom. Its designed for 3d also and has a 3d scanner camera. I don't hold much hope for it's effectiveness as a scanner. I am wondering if it would be able to handle Verve. There is a link cable and stand that need to be bought separately that they should have included. The cable allows you to hook up to a desktop for greater power and program access. I am on the edge here. Wait til the surface pro 3?

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:55 pm
by Knacki
Hi Tartan,

I hear you!
There is nothing available I am dreaming of, so far as I know.

Basic Prob:

For IOS, you get so cool painting apps done for touch use, it is so logical and feel just like a sketchbook in your hand.
I chose the ipad 10,5" version, which is small and light enough -about 650gr to just to hold it with left arm and draw navigate - anything with right hand. Turn it around, hold it like you want - This is simply wonderful.
Just bought it used on ebay, one year old, 256GB Cellular including apple keyboard (never used that so far, new 180€), leathersleeve (useless, but expensive-new 150€) and cover and protector with pencil holder but without Apple pencil for 550€
A lot of these Apple freaks changing to insanely expensive new stuff actually, maybe still a good chance to test? ;)
But even new....hey imagine what a Cintiq costs....without computer Cellular inside etc. They just released a low budget line........... for 650€.
Price wise you won't get anything more affordable for digital painting - A friend is using the Samsung Tab s4 - well that was cheaper and he is doing great stuff with the S-Pen, but Android is missing some very cool apps.
And that's the mess with all of those portable small tablets - you are jailed in IOS inflexibility, also memory wise (cloud stuff is a must to have an almost decent workflow)

Windows and touch.
It's cool, but not 100% like Apple smoothness.
Here, I would see my "dream" machine. Microsoft Surface book2.
The smaller 13" version has also configurations with 2GB GTX1050 and the 15" with 6GB GTX1060- which is a cool card I have in my actual laptop as well.
But you need the performance base (keyboard) connected to have the graphic card working, otherwise you are on Intel. Good -> you can disconnect the monitor and it's a tablet AND you can turn it around, connect it again and close it with the monitor side upwards for drawing or zbrushing etc. Well, better than laying your laptop on the keyboard keys, like other vendors offering, but still - no shortcuts anymore.
It is not that lightweight...13" 1,6 kg 15" 1,9kg + 380gr power supply, not a lightweight at all - BUT the tablet is 720gr only (13") or 820gr 15". So you got a tablet with an decent i7 working with zBrush and a bunch of painting apps.
For verve, you would need to connect the keyboard with graphic card.
BUT you have zBrush, Photoshop, verve etc. with it's tiny tiny little controls here and there, filling the screen with extra windows (not verve ;) )
It is said, that the pen can jitter and that's the biggest con against. Pressure level of 2,4 or 8k...I think this is more advertising, imho.
I tried an Cintiq first gen 13" with zBrush tiny little mini switches and sliders, incredible - I am too old for that - or I should wear glasses old day long - I am too young for that :D

Mobile Studio
I once tried a 16" wacom mobile studio 16" equiped with a Quaddro 600 or M1000(4GB!). Some entry level pro cards making you an entry level pro.
But man!!!! What a brick!!!!! Hell this thing is huge, it's heavy it's everything but not mobile. 2,2 kg and no way back.
And you have the lovely wacom pen.
Here some gaming performance of the 1000M

The zBook x2 with a Quaddro M620 was for a while insanely cheap available in the U.S.
That's what I read at least.
It's another ugly brick with good power. Discontinued, I guess.

All these computer cost a fortune regularly. Most of them are almost too old to buy now.

Ahh, forgot. The Porsche Designbook ONE is pretty "cheap" as well now. You need to look. Discontinued as well but Intel graphic only - but also with an detachable monitor tablet like microsoft book.

That's the mess.
If there would be a Lenovo p720 with detachable tablet Wacom tech and Quadro 5000M - I would instantly buy it.
Or a razor with RTX2080 and i9 - if so, and everything works well, it would be worth some around 5-7000€ compared what you would have to buy separately and will be separately forever.

Just my two cents :D

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:56 pm
by Tartan
Thanks Knacki,

All of these are nice options. :D

You are right about IOS Right now it is too limited but I think that will change down the road.

I am running Z brush on a 30 inch HP and still Squint to read menus. I can imagine it on a Cintiq 13 inch screen. :lol:

I think I will pass on the mobile studio. It sounds like it is meant for hotel tables not actual laps. The gaming looked great on you tube. It is still very impressive.

I looked up Zbook x2 on Amazon. Some fairly expensive options there and strong builds. Prices were between roughly $1500 and $2500. This would be a good choice.

After reading up on the Sufacebook 3 I will wait. IF they put in a Thunderbolt 3 port I am in all the way. Multiple monitors and no Squinting! :beer: Duplicate the display to a 55 inch 4k tv heh. Throw Serious GPU at it. When out and about use it as a sketch pad :) First article my search engine found was ... 3-3679027/ You would never have to worry about GPUs and that I 9 processor will last a damn long time. I could see me ripping a GPU out of my main computer to use externally. The article relates that Microsoft says it isn't meant for gaming but this would rock. I see no problems with Verve or Zbrush on it at all. I am hoping that if the 2 has pen Jitter problems they have fixed it for the 3. Knacki this sounds wonderful to me. :D

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:07 am
by eduardobedoya
Hi Knacki,
Nice piggy,
It's been 5 years since the first version of Verve was released??
Taron is developing verve individually, if he sells Verve it may not end well for all us Verve lovers.
I remember the so called proyect Gustav, owned by microsoft and I think developed by three people, Microsoft just discontinued it.
Thanks god one of the developers returned to China and founded the Moxi proyect, which ended up being Expresii an cfd painting app, btw he talked very well about Verve long ago in a post on the Expresii blog.
I don't know exactly how he gathered the money to found the company, but I'm pretty sure his proyect is now secure so to say, as all other chinesse companies xD. Perhaps Taron could do something like that.

ArtRage was developed mainly by two programmers, one of them being Andy Bearsley ... nt-reddit/
(I remember asking him his opinion about the cfd for ArtRage xD.)
I guess the GUI was developed by other people. ... -two-years)&_ga=2.40875874.1738461594.1557878833-1283385432.1557878833

Hope this info could be usefull to Taron somehow.

congrats knacki, hope to see more of your artwork, n your process if possible, n some inspirational Verve fluids too if is not too much to ask.
btw, please Knacki tell me what "fluid like" apps you prefer for IOs n Android? PC?
thanks advanced.

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:21 am
by Knacki
Needed to touch verve again.
Man, how much I am missing the painting engine intelligence.
GaryOldman.jpg (223.04 KiB) Viewed 2529 times

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:41 am
by Taron
Wow! That's an awesome piece! Can't quite make out Gary Oldman, but that's one of the amazing things about the guy in the first place, hehe. But it looks just great! :ob
Yeah, well, I'm super thrilled you still have some fun with Verve. I know you're disappointed that I haven't, yet, managed to take Verve up to the next level, but its time will come again. I've got so many ideas piled up, it's nuts. One of them will make you freak out badly, I'm pretty sure! :hyper: ...maybe... or maybe you won't care about it, not sure, but it's a wicked one that I'm sure nobody has ever had or seen before, hahaha. It's about making a full-on shader layer, where you can literally plug in your own shader code and I'll provide some uniforms like mouse, pressure, tilt, time and so on. It's out there, that's for sure, but I've been playing around with shader writing a little and realized that this could be like a tiny little revolution.
But then there are also thing in regards to the whole paint engine itself, which i still want to revamp. Danged, I wished I was already migrating to C++ with this, but I'm still afraid for some reason. :shrug:

ANYWAY: AWESOME to have you back for at least one gem of yours! :beer:

Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:09 pm
by Knacki
Thank you taron. You are very kind.

That sounds awesome, taron.
Well no, I am not dissapointed.
I simply don't believe that anything will happen in the near or far future.

Your ideas are revolutionary, out of this world.
But as long as you are not able to ask for help from others, you won't be able to free yourself from being afraid of next steps.
You profession is innovation, not C++ or any other language nor UI design down to final detail, logic and functionality.
Others are way better in that. (Finishing boring but necessary work) Faster, more productive, more consistent.
You are an exeptional creative mind with monster visions and with a limitation (regarding verve, don't know anything else) to bring a promissing big product to market.

I am not dissapointed, I stopped beliving.



Re: With verve into the light

PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:04 pm
by Taron
Thanks, Knacki! We shall see! Right now I'm busy trying to proof your point with a different product where I am basically allowed to just be an innovator in various aspects of coding and code design. Though I may have to wear a few more hats on that as well, but I'm not alone at least.
If that works out as well as it should, I may have the tools and help to turn Verve around as well. That's hope! ;)