IMPLEMENT, IMPLEMENT!

Dude, i really feel bad by now ... i hope that you're in a good mood today? Please, hear me out on this.
i just worked on a complex scene with many layers and i thought about how to make them alpha or weight eachother and so on.

Okay, i usually do not like nodes much, i am an old dog and can't quite get my head around all dem vectors, but i do see their purpose and power and they become more and more standard.
So, ... what if the layers panel was a floating window node editor?



Each layer is a node, and there would be like a main node where you pipe everything into and thereby set the layer order.
Unplugging a layer node from it would hide the layer.
The individual layer nodes may have their own parameter for transparency, bump, glossiness, all these.(wouldn't mess up the UI if you want to add more)

They would have input/output channels as you would expect (color, bump, alpha, weight maybe dryness ect.) and you can override their own content in that channel with an input from another node.
The node panel could be collapsed independently of the color wheel/brush settings.

If you come up with fancy new fluid simulations you could add a node for that and let the user choose if they want to use the old methods.
You could generally have several different fluid simulation nodes, pre configured for performance over accuracy for low end systems for instance.
Have cheap fluids for the background layer and hi-end for the foreground

You could save nodes out to disk and thereby easily transfer layers from one project to another.
Maybe have axial and radial symmetry nodes, hue, satturation ect and pipe them into selected layers only, instead of the whole scene ... you know?

i don't know, maybe i am missing something, but in my mind this would work very well?

Kinda like this ... sorry for huge

Hmmmh, i keep thinking about this
How about a compromise ... It's a layers panel until you need the nodes

Sorry for quick'n dirty



A community created node library also has a nice ring to it ... could take some weight off your shoulders

[Taron]

Ok, this is even cooler than what I thought about! ....dude!
I'm a little afraid that this could scare the living daylights out of many innocent aspiring artists or even well seasoned artists, who finally try digital art, but.... B U T ... I'd absolutely love it!
Actually, I love nodes, because they give you great control in all the good cases.

Your visualization blows my mind, I have to say, though! You're quite amazing, jim!

Pffff, this is beautifully inspiring, man. At the same time I'm still concerned about the depth of complication this could create. I might have to evolve it into such an option first. People shouldn't get carried away with the modules while forgetting to paint instead, haha. But, yeah...extremely tempting!

THANK YOU, JIM!!!

Don't remember that many people hate the nodes' systems! (Particulary artists!

trueSpace introduced nodes to its software. Never came to grips with them in it or Max or Blender yet.
Watching pixels on the screen is more instantly gratifying to me

[Taron]

Pilou!!!
Yes, that's what I mean by going over board with that stuff! Some people may be tempted to do just that. But then, a clever node system can remain very easy to view and edit. However, we shall see. I think, similar to AfterFX, this could become an optional way of hooking stuff up, not a necessity. Oddly enough, I've never used it in AfterFX. Digital Fusion was a bit different and there you had no other choice, I think, or in Combustion, if I remember correctly. I had little trouble with either, but those are different applications in their very nature.

Anyway...again, we shall see!

Wow, i am so happy that you took the nodes approach so well, i really been hesitant-excited about this one, thank you very much, dude!
i am sure that i don't need to dwell on them further i just like to add that i can well relate to the potentially overwhelming complexity of nodes.
However, i think that the hybrid would be a well balanced compromise?
It's the way i use Lightwave these days, i do prefer the surface layers and only change to nodes if i must .. but when i must then i really am glad that i can.

Verve is so very new and unconventional, maybe it shouldn't be limited by what people are used to, anyway.

Sorry, more random thoughts from the .txt ...

- Some live/dynamic brush masks/keys (cavity, lightness, chroma ect).

- May i add to my previous naging about the transform tool that it also blurs the image and that it doesn't show up live on the mirrored side when in symmetry.

- Here, another thing i always been fascinated by, wouldn't Verve be able to do something like this? (with gravity )


- A "select the layer (i mean layer node ) over which content my mouse is currently hovering over" shortcut. ([ctrl]+click in PS)

- Hey, i just thought ... how about a morph state? could be nice and also would bridge the missing undo a bit.
i picture it to be much like the "Warp" stage ... you can elevate a layer into that morph stage and then draw as if nothing happened, though the things you do are only "interpolated"?
You could test things out in a non destructiv way, use "Erase" or [Ctrl] + drawing to restore localy and then either commit (apply morph) or undo it entirely.
ie. start a big undo session.

- Brushes id like to have:

A "flakes" brush, i picture it to be like brush #3, but insteat of dots for bristles it would spray, ... random shapes?
Sort of random trapeze like things ... Uhm, like if you create one quad in Lightwave and then apply a point jitter.
Like lightwaves car paint procedural flakes, you know?
Would be nice for foliage and such?

A sponge brush, i imagine it to behave/feel much like brush #2 but look more like brush #8 ... but it also has bristles.
You would not have to move it though to get smudge, rather you push down.
i thought that the brush would not grow like #2 does instead the bristles themself grow.


If these bristles now would be fractal noise thingys like brush #8 i think it would look, ... spongey?



And a Goat tongue brush, please

[Taron]

Goat tongue is a must have!

Sponge I thought about, too. Actually...aaaccctuuaalllyyy...sponge was part of the thought that had me write the fractal brush, besides a cool youtube clip of an airbrush artist that used magazine pages to create effects and, of course, the pallet knife of Bob Ross!

That glass is amazing, no doubt!

Awww cool, right thats just what i mean actually ... #8 does look right but really feels more like a knife.
id like that look but push it in rather than drag it along ... i am sure that you will come up with something magical